<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Feminists anger men, for some strange reason</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14</link>
	<description>A place for men to learn about feminism.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-60</guid>
		<description>The most important work of feminism isn't raising men's consciousness about it anyway, but women's. And for that work, I hope for the women who taught me to continue to speak out and help other women undo the cultural damage. As a man, I can't talk credibly about feminism to women. The absurdity of an oppressor educating the person he oppresses about her need to understand his oppression is insane.

But can we men who have tried to understand this issue just sit around and either feel bad that we are reluctant oppressors, or else congratulate ourselves on limiting our sexism to the extent we can? Just sit and sulk, or sit and smirk? What should we be doing that is active?

I decided that the least I could do was speak out to men, and share some of my insights to others on how I felt it might work, and what some of the more obvious problems could be. 

The majority of men will remain willfully ignorant of the female experience for the foreseeable future at least. But many good men are ready to understand the ways that our culture has deluded them about their roles. I feel an immense burden lifted from me when I imagine myself living in a world where sexism isn't required of us in order to lead our lives.

I will try to focus on moving men from sheer sexist bullshit to some kind of understanding, even though three hundred years has only got us to this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most important work of feminism isn&#8217;t raising men&#8217;s consciousness about it anyway, but women&#8217;s. And for that work, I hope for the women who taught me to continue to speak out and help other women undo the cultural damage. As a man, I can&#8217;t talk credibly about feminism to women. The absurdity of an oppressor educating the person he oppresses about her need to understand his oppression is insane.</p>
<p>But can we men who have tried to understand this issue just sit around and either feel bad that we are reluctant oppressors, or else congratulate ourselves on limiting our sexism to the extent we can? Just sit and sulk, or sit and smirk? What should we be doing that is active?</p>
<p>I decided that the least I could do was speak out to men, and share some of my insights to others on how I felt it might work, and what some of the more obvious problems could be. </p>
<p>The majority of men will remain willfully ignorant of the female experience for the foreseeable future at least. But many good men are ready to understand the ways that our culture has deluded them about their roles. I feel an immense burden lifted from me when I imagine myself living in a world where sexism isn&#8217;t required of us in order to lead our lives.</p>
<p>I will try to focus on moving men from sheer sexist bullshit to some kind of understanding, even though three hundred years has only got us to this point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thebewilderness</title>
		<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>thebewilderness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 02:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-59</guid>
		<description>As a guy, that may work for you.
As a woman, after three hundred years of trying to get men to set aside the myth they live by, and take a cold hard look at reality, I'm thinking the gradual approach leaves you going in circles. When the ignorance is willful, it sustains itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a guy, that may work for you.<br />
As a woman, after three hundred years of trying to get men to set aside the myth they live by, and take a cold hard look at reality, I&#8217;m thinking the gradual approach leaves you going in circles. When the ignorance is willful, it sustains itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thanatos02</title>
		<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Thanatos02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-58</guid>
		<description>College was really good to me about feminisms. Both my Critical Analysis professor and my Continental Philosophy professor were fantastic instructors and I walked out with a whole new mindset. Where before, I really tried to be feminist but didn't have a good understanding of causes and effects of my actions and privilages, those classes really helped to make it clear. My mindset would never have changed, though, if it wern't for my willingness to accept new information into my worldview.

That background was what helped me when I read I Blame the Patriarchy. That, and taking Twisty's mantra of "It's not all about you." really seriously. That's something guys need to learn before anything else, maybe. That it's not all about them. It's not all about how males feel, and it's not all about their, personal, feelings. If they're offended by what Twisty says about 'men', then they need to consider if it's them she's talking about, or the culture they're raised in. If it sounds like something they'd do, then that requires reflection, too.

Reading I Blame the Patriarchy is a lesson in the school of hard knocks. It's one I'm glad is there. I don't post there because I feel that it's best while I'm there to shut up and listen, and learn. I post here because it feels a little more like 'men and women talking about the feminisms that influence them, and the reaction of a patriarchy to feminisms.' You've got the voices of the patriarchy here, so I feel like it's a place to engage them, and that's something I can do even if I'm a man. 

(In fact, it seems like an obligation when talking about society as a whole. Men should work to change things, too. Laying it all at women's feet and just saying 'good luck' seems like it just propagates the issue.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>College was really good to me about feminisms. Both my Critical Analysis professor and my Continental Philosophy professor were fantastic instructors and I walked out with a whole new mindset. Where before, I really tried to be feminist but didn&#8217;t have a good understanding of causes and effects of my actions and privilages, those classes really helped to make it clear. My mindset would never have changed, though, if it wern&#8217;t for my willingness to accept new information into my worldview.</p>
<p>That background was what helped me when I read I Blame the Patriarchy. That, and taking Twisty&#8217;s mantra of &#8220;It&#8217;s not all about you.&#8221; really seriously. That&#8217;s something guys need to learn before anything else, maybe. That it&#8217;s not all about them. It&#8217;s not all about how males feel, and it&#8217;s not all about their, personal, feelings. If they&#8217;re offended by what Twisty says about &#8216;men&#8217;, then they need to consider if it&#8217;s them she&#8217;s talking about, or the culture they&#8217;re raised in. If it sounds like something they&#8217;d do, then that requires reflection, too.</p>
<p>Reading I Blame the Patriarchy is a lesson in the school of hard knocks. It&#8217;s one I&#8217;m glad is there. I don&#8217;t post there because I feel that it&#8217;s best while I&#8217;m there to shut up and listen, and learn. I post here because it feels a little more like &#8216;men and women talking about the feminisms that influence them, and the reaction of a patriarchy to feminisms.&#8217; You&#8217;ve got the voices of the patriarchy here, so I feel like it&#8217;s a place to engage them, and that&#8217;s something I can do even if I&#8217;m a man. </p>
<p>(In fact, it seems like an obligation when talking about society as a whole. Men should work to change things, too. Laying it all at women&#8217;s feet and just saying &#8216;good luck&#8217; seems like it just propagates the issue.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-57</guid>
		<description>aroundthebend is right about how unfair and tiresome it is for women to be expected to educate men about sexism. It's not unfair or tiresome for men to educate other men about sexism, though. It's an important way to change your world. Much like those of us who dislike having people say racist shit around us when we are trying to be less racist ourselves, it's more tiring to listen to sexist crap without some kind of response when the total obviousness or it all has become second nature.

I don't think that finding ways to shift the perception of feminism in men from a personal problem to a problem created by our culture is exactly taking care of men's emotional needs. It's not exactly a need that men feel, understanding women's problems and how they create and promote them through their own sexism. The only need it fills is the need to get across a little common sense in the sex that has this huge culturally-engrained fear of seeing anything at all from the perspective of a woman, because being like a woman is the worst thing a man can be. 

It's not about men and women so much as it is about oppressed and oppressing. Without the oppression, there would be nearly nothing to distinguish between the sexes outside of some small organs.

Any way anyone can find to strip away the denial and confusion that men feel about sex roles is a good thing for all of us. Many a man isn't worth the trouble, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aroundthebend is right about how unfair and tiresome it is for women to be expected to educate men about sexism. It&#8217;s not unfair or tiresome for men to educate other men about sexism, though. It&#8217;s an important way to change your world. Much like those of us who dislike having people say racist shit around us when we are trying to be less racist ourselves, it&#8217;s more tiring to listen to sexist crap without some kind of response when the total obviousness or it all has become second nature.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that finding ways to shift the perception of feminism in men from a personal problem to a problem created by our culture is exactly taking care of men&#8217;s emotional needs. It&#8217;s not exactly a need that men feel, understanding women&#8217;s problems and how they create and promote them through their own sexism. The only need it fills is the need to get across a little common sense in the sex that has this huge culturally-engrained fear of seeing anything at all from the perspective of a woman, because being like a woman is the worst thing a man can be. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not about men and women so much as it is about oppressed and oppressing. Without the oppression, there would be nearly nothing to distinguish between the sexes outside of some small organs.</p>
<p>Any way anyone can find to strip away the denial and confusion that men feel about sex roles is a good thing for all of us. Many a man isn&#8217;t worth the trouble, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aroundthebend213</title>
		<link>http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>aroundthebend213</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministfred.com/archives/14#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Its probably the only approach that will work, but I'm tired of taking care of men's mental and emotional health when they are not expected to care for me in that way. Educating men about sexism reinforces the gendered division of care work as the natural order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its probably the only approach that will work, but I&#8217;m tired of taking care of men&#8217;s mental and emotional health when they are not expected to care for me in that way. Educating men about sexism reinforces the gendered division of care work as the natural order.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
